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000022_icon-group-sender _Wed May 24 05:04:42 1995.msg
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1995-09-18
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Received: by cheltenham.cs.arizona.edu; Wed, 24 May 1995 07:01:55 MST
To: icon-group-l@cs.arizona.edu
Date: 24 May 1995 05:04:42 GMT
From: porco@pathos.Berkeley.EDU (Travis C. Porco)
Message-Id: <3puepa$86k@agate.berkeley.edu>
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Sender: icon-group-request@cs.arizona.edu
References: <3p9g5g$4l2@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au>, <3pc58h$htb@news.computek.net>
Subject: Re: icon notes [Re: Is there such a language...]
Errors-To: icon-group-errors@cs.arizona.edu
In article <3pc58h$htb@news.computek.net>, <gep2@computek.net> wrote:
+> :ICON programmers should be actively promoting the language they love: making
+> :code reservoirs, cool ways of doing things,etc.. I see none of that.
+>
+> But they *DO*. I have seen quite a bit of code posted to comp.lang.icon
+> over the last couple of years, and user-contributed Icon code _is_ held
+> at cs.arizona. It isn't hard to find: cd icon and follow the READ.MEs.
+>
+> :Or they should have an active newsgroup, interactive newsletters, etc to tell
+> :the world their accomplishments.
+
+Well, I lived in Paris for almost nine years, and during that time I helped organize a
+visit of Madge Griswold (co-author of the Icon book) to talk to a large computer
+club; managed to get an echo of the Icon newsgroup on a popular local BBS;
+and also frequently discussed both SNOBOL4+ and Icon on lots of international
+echo conferences. I entered Icon or SNOBOL4+ programs into several BBS
+programming competitions. I managed to get a couple of local programmers interested,
+but most seemed stuck on their stupid Perl garbage (who needs it, if you have
+SNOBOL4+ and Icon?????). After lots of mostly unsuccessful attempts, I finally
+just gave up and decided to keep it to myself... my secret weapon in the Consulting
+Wars. :-)
+
+I can come in after another consultant, and often do a project in two days that
+the other guy has said will take him one or two months... even if I charged two or
+three times as much for my time as he does, I can still solve the client's problem for
+less money, and get the solution to him sooner. And when a client is paying for a
+programmer by the day, I've NEVER YET had a client insist that I write the thing in
+C or something more common, instead of SNOBOL4+.
+
+> Let's see: Fortran is still alive, COBOL is still alive, Basic is still
+> alive, MUMPS is still alive, APL is still alive, Lisp is still alive,
+> people are _still_ (much to my astonishment) using Jovial, I've got a
+> SNOBOL system so SNOBOL is still alive....
+
+Actually, for everyday programming tasks, I personally still prefer SNOBOL4+ to
+Icon. I just think it's easier to use, unless I need character sets or combinatorial
+things or some of the other special features of Icon.
+
+
Tell us more. I find Icon fascinating, but it is so intricate
in some ways and so different that it would take me a _long_
time of stumbling in the dark to learn how to use it
effectively. I'd consider paying anyone who could show me
tricks, techniques, tips. After all, there aren't hundreds of
books on this fascinating language, and I'm not a big one to
reinvent the wheel.
So share with us details, case studies, tips, tricks if you
like; many of us lurkers would like to see this sort of thing.
In particular, how is Snobol preferable to Icon for some
tasks? Both are interesting languages and a non-flame-war
comparison might shed light on both.
--Travis